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Post by wombat on Feb 25, 2015 13:29:34 GMT -5
thejournal.link/
FC Journal has brought up a few interesting dialogues on Facebook, enough so that I think it would be good to discuss here.
I've also heard reference from other non-anarchist primitivists that they see the problems we have as a matter of scale rather than necessarily hierarchy. I'm not sure on the nuance of FC Journal's positions, but they are interesting enough to illicit conversation. Here is their "Introduction to Hunter/Gatherer":
FC Journal was created for the express purpose of spreading love for wilderness and all things wild. We intend it to be a place where various people can share their appreciation of wilderness and the experiences, news, knowledge, and ideas that come with that appreciation.
We have also explicitly opened up a place in FC Journal for the public development of Primitivist thought. We strongly encourage people to submit articles contributing to Primitivist ideas, and some in FC Journal staff are also interested in contributing.
But while FC Journal is a place to publish in-depth analysis and working ideas that are already pretty solid, we also realize that there is need for discussion on developing topics or even topics that have previously been unexplored.
“Hunter/Gatherer” is an editorial column for just that. Every month we will publish two or more articles about a specific topic relevant to Primitivist theory. We encourage people to more thoroughly discuss these topics in the comments below, and hope that these discussions will eventually lead to more developed articles being published in the main journal.
If you have a specific topic you would like to write about for Hunter/Gatherer, email us at fcjournal@riseup.net.
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Post by wombat on Feb 25, 2015 13:33:32 GMT -5
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Post by KT on Feb 25, 2015 14:52:51 GMT -5
I've been pretty public in my irritation with "FC". Jacobi's insistence on trying to box ideas into something that makes sense in his mind and for his purposes is absolutely riddled with misconceptions, misunderstandings, falsehoods, and missing information to the point where what is being iterated here is pretty much just wrong in many ways. But ultimately the end goal of "FC" (so confusing/confused) is to create an "anti-tech Revolution" which I'm opposed to. So I'm not eager to help them develop ideas that will ultimately (yet doubtfully) be another movement to oppose.
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art
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by art on Feb 25, 2015 23:37:50 GMT -5
My major intellectual project right now is writing a 6,000 word article on ITS / RS in Mexico, and a whole section is devoted to their anti-tech revolution position as attributed to Uncle Ted. I'll post a link once I am done. While RS probably has really divergent ideas from here, I can only imagine why KT would oppose the idea of a anti-tech revolution. Part of me just thinks it's an oxymoron. RS at one point says that the only successful revolution in history has been the Industrial Revolution, which probably says a lot right there.
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Post by KT on Feb 26, 2015 0:48:28 GMT -5
I feel like everything I have to say to these groups is summed up here: The Message and the Messenger and backed up here: The Failure of Revolution. It's important to recognize the link between Ted and these groups. I've been through the gauntlet with Ted. He's manipulative and intent on having someone else guide his revolution (ironic in the sense that when I stopped writing him in 2003/4 he was still adamantly denying that he was "FC"). The context for Ted is that he "dropped out" in Berkeley while Maoism was still in fashion. Kind of a devout sense of neoteny there. His ideas have essentially centered around applying Ellul to Maoist Revolutionary Principles. Frankly I think RS/ITS carry that. Essentially I wouldn't stand in their way, but I absolutely don't think they'd ever escalate beyond very small scale groups into a full blown revolution despite their relentless justification for killing/wounding bystanders. The only thing that really makes RS/ITS a subject is their deed, far more than any level of their propaganda. That's why it's mentioned at all. UNCFC is just wanting to have the same impact, but wants to position itself as some part of this overall ideological trajectory, but it's all premature, underdeveloped and too eager to correct itself. But in the end, I think it's best that it burns out early on, because if it's casting itself in Ted's shadow with increased revolutionary ambition, then why should we give them footing. If we're going to discuss this, it has to acknowledge that RS/ITS have embraced the traditional sense of revolution: we're going to war with the technological society. Considering the scale, that war means embracing what is a campaign of terror: targeting individuals. I'm not shedding a tear over many of their targets, but I think that completely misses the point. The underlying principle is the idea that you can make those holding their positions accountable enough that they'll step down or refuse to step up and maintain them. For that to be effective, the campaigns need to be far, far more precise and common, but even then I doubt their ability to really get a grasp on any actual power. Had those groups focused more strategically and directed their attention towards the infrastructure itself and not just its laborers, then there's a much larger chance that they'd get some traction and frankly their ideology would be far less relevant. And, as per usual, I'm commenting on this in terms of entertainment and am not advocating illegal activity. That would be uncivilized.
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art
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by art on Feb 26, 2015 8:10:58 GMT -5
KT, I think you are getting ITS/RS wrong, but that's not surprising because you really gotta dig into their stuff, a lot of it in Spanish, to really draw out what they are trying to say. But briefly, they are not in favor of revolution or taking power in any way, shape, or form. If you want, I can send you my rough draft of the essay I am writing so you can have first dibs at it. I should probably be done with it sometime next month. I am looking for input anyway. To my knowledge, it will be the first real "study" of their literature done in any language, but I could be wrong on that.
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Post by KT on Feb 26, 2015 11:40:23 GMT -5
Good call, Art. My reply probably appears very disingenuous, so I should put a disclaimer in there. I know less about RS than ITS and even there it's limited. I'm aware of the language that they use, but to me every bit of it just reads like Ted. The accusations about Leftism, activists, even trying to call out JZ, it's all in there. So even if they're talking about being against Revolution and Leftism, there are still these kernels of inherent Maoism that are hold overs from Ted. Admittedly, that might have changed and if there's a lot of writing that isn't in English, then I'm in no position to comment on where it's gone. Hopefully the outgrew Ted because that's a bind that really frames the motivation and perspective even when illicitly using opposing language. I'm looking forward to that piece!
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art
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by art on Feb 27, 2015 8:15:12 GMT -5
KT, here you go, bro: "No more primitivism! That word just had too much baggage associated with it. In fact, let's just make a few things clear while we're starting things fresh: The Wildernist has nothing to do with anarchism, insurrectionalism, or any of the various "radical" philosophies floating around on the left right now. In fact, we don't belong to the left (or the right) at all! The Wildernist editorial team is singularly focused on one thing: we want wildness to define our lives. And, yes, that might just mean a no-compromise movement against industry." thewildernist.org/blogs/hg/2015/02/fc-journal-wildernist-whats-new/
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art
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by art on Feb 27, 2015 8:17:18 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe it's all the Hegel I freebased, but the idea that one can just wave the magic wand and *poof* I got a grand-spanking new ideology unrelated to anything before it seems kind of ridiculous. Everyone wants to be the special snowflake who breaks the mold, but really we are just rehashing themes that people before us have been rehashing since the beginning of civilization and will be doing so until it ends.
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Post by KT on Feb 27, 2015 11:15:50 GMT -5
Hahaha. I'm fucking dead. What will it be next week?
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Post by KT on Feb 27, 2015 11:17:10 GMT -5
Maybe the poll needs to be changed to "WAS FC journal".
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Post by a on Feb 27, 2015 17:58:10 GMT -5
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Post by wombat on Feb 27, 2015 22:36:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately polls can't be altered after they are posted . A large part of me thinks that if they can tone down the
they might have something more to add.
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Post by KT on Feb 28, 2015 0:50:41 GMT -5
A job well done. Wombat, the only consistent thing is that "they" want a Revolution and an Ideology. Neither of those is appealing at all to me, but if Ted is the starting point, there's no way getting that semi out of the caul-de-sac. Otherwise, I might be offended at being called a leftist if the person wielding the term had the slightest notion as to what a leftist is.
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Post by simpleton on Feb 28, 2015 2:05:54 GMT -5
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